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Fireside Chat with Phillip on SoMee Gamification Mechanics

October 30, 2022

Question From: Ekimike
Hi i just want to ask what function is delegate . Just wondering and want to know the real purpose thank you.

(telegram Official SoMee Channel - 10/30/2022

[In reply to Ekimike, Chris Kramer wrote:]
Delegate allows you to delegate your power to another to earn

[ Ekimike]
[In reply to Christopher Kramer]
Like staking your hive to other users? Especially if you know they have great SMEP? Thank you for that knowledge

To that process, the user's delegate with is he/She Need first to approve before you can delegate your power to them?

[ Christopher Kramer]
[In reply to Ekimike]

[ Ekimike]
Ah ok, thank u
well appreciated

Last question, If I may,

For Example, User A has 50hp she wants to delegate her 10HP to user B, and User B has 100 HP

so what will be the total Hp of user B if it turns 110HP?

And user A still have her 50HP ?or will it become 40Hp?

[ Phillip Rumple]
When delegating, you send tokens or power out to another user temporarily. Ego, you are lending out to that user.

So if user a has 100 hp, and they delegate 10hp, then user a has only 90 hp available at the time for calculating resource credits, voting power, etc.

The person they sent the ten hp to receive it as an incoming delegation of power (in this case, hive power). Let’s assume that the user had 100 hp before the delegation. After the delegation, they still have 100 hp and 10 lent hp. Meaning when calculating, they have a total value of 110 hp.

However, the user cannot access that ten hp at any time, cannot send that to anyone, and can only cancel the delegation if they choose. That delegation is lent to them to boost them, nothing more.

That user, for example, could power down all 100 hp they have, but they’ll still have ten hp used for calculation because they cannot power down more hp than they individually have until the user cancels the delegation; they have that bossed hp available on their account. Ergo they cannot do anything with the delegated power: of tokens but benefit from them.

User a sends 100 SME power to user b

User b now has at least 100 SME power.

When the system calculates how much a post or vote is worth, it will look at the user b’s power and add any delegated power to it.

Let’s say that user b had 0 power before the delegation.

When calculating the side chain, will look at the user bs total SME power (0) and add it to any delegated power (100) and get the total power available (100) and multiply it by the rest of the values to get the vote/post value.

But let’s assume that user b wishes to power down. When the system checks, he only has 0 power of their own, so they have nothing to power down.

Because transfers, power-ups and power-downs, and conversions do not take into account any delegated values

That better?

[ Ekimike]
Ah got it thanks

[ Phillip Rumple]
Note when delegating,
you are reducing your overall token value as well.

User a delegated 100 SME power out to user b; therefore, when calculating, the chain will subtract any outbound delegations from user a’s total power before calculating rewards

[ Ekimike]
[In reply to Phillip Rumple]]
Thank you for that I've learned new things now

[ Phillip Rumple]
Sure no problem

[ Ekimike]
[In reply to Phillip Rumple
Sorry I have another question

Delegating HP benefit to the user who delegates?

Delegating SMEP benefits from the user who delegates?

[ Phillip Rumple]
not at this time

delegating is just 'being nice' lol

no other major benefit

one could make a proposal on the DHF that a % of the reward for each post/vote that a user receives who is delegated to goes back to the delegator

but since hive allows you to specify beneficiaries (which we will add soon), technically, you could already reward them for delegating to you

A beneficiary is someone who will receive benefits for your post/vote payout.

So if User A delegates to User B, user B could, whenever they post, set User A as a beneficiary of their vote/post rewards at a given %

we'll be adding that to settings shortly so that you can add any X number of users at the needed % for rewarding people who boost you

[ Ekimike]

[ Phillip Rumple]
that's not how it works with SME/Hive Engine

if you delegate HP to someone, YOU ARE NOT earning anything.

you are just boosting the other person

I have already verified this with both hive developers and hive engine devs - there is no actual value for the person delegating other than 'being nice.'

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
I see. I have no idea why my delegated hive keeps increasing then. lol

[ Phillip Rumple]
and understand, @AllzeeAF, that when the chain calculates your post and vote rewards, it SUBTRACTS any outbound delegations you have


If you want the actual formula

And note the amount of outbound delegation you HAVE does not change unless you delegate more out or cancel a delegation. It is not a 'value-based' submission; it's a total base.

If I delegated 100 HP to User B, it doesn't matter what the hive does in value; it's still 100 HP to the user.

If I delegate again, another 100 HP out to User C, then I'll have 200 HP out.

And note also, @AllzeeAF, the person you delegated to, can cancel the delegation at any time.

(though on hive engine, it takes seven days to get that back to your wallet)

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
For example. I delegated 25 hive to someone some time ago. And now, on the "outgoing delegation," it's 25.620.
If I didn't earn them from their activity. I dunno how I just got them. 🤔

[ Phillip Rumple]
that's hive, not hive power

when you delegate HIVE, you are subject to the change in HBD/HIVE price

if I delegate 100 HIVE out to someone, and the price of HIVE increases, the value of that delegation can change for the user to equal the amount you delegated

it tries to keep it fair so that the actual VALUE of the HIVE you are delegating out to someone stays consistent

the fact you delegated 25 HIVE out to someone, and hive fell slightly in price explains why you have 25.620 out because to make up for the value of 25 hive, it added slightly more out

I cannot get into all the specifics here because there are a CRAP ton of formulas involved here

but the easiest thing for you to remember:

  • If I delegate out, I'm being nice, not rewarded
  • I can cancel those delegations at anytime
  • And the person I delegate to can cancel at anytime
  • And the person I delegate to cannot use that delegation for anything - it's still my own

Those are the rules of delegation on hive and hive engine

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
When you power up Hive. It turns into Hive Power, right? Then I meant Hive Power in my previous messages*

[ Phillip Rumple]
when you power up hive, it will turn into HIVE POWER, yes - and at the same time, boost your downvote power, voting power, and resource credits on the hive network

however, hive power is HIGHLY dependent on the price of HIVE

the more HIVE drops in value, the less hive power is worth, the fewer resource credits are worth, and the more RC things will cost on the chain

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
Gotcha. That makes sense.

[ Phillip Rumple]
the more hive is worth, the more hive power is worth, the less hive power you'll receive, and the less RC you'll receive, the but RC costs will decrease in value on the chain

[ Ekimike]
I learned here a lot today progressive day here

[ Phillip Rumple]
keep in mind, however, that 98% of your rewards will come from SME

you'd have to have about 35,000 worth of USD on HIVE to make $1

the only real benefit to converting SME to HIVE and powering up HIVE to HIVE Power is to give you more Resource Credits/Voting Power/Downvoting power on the hive blockchain

so for the average user, the HIVE side of the house isn't really about value; it's about utility

and the SME side of the house is about value

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
I did make some calculations on this a while ago. I was shocked when finding out how low their rewards were.

[ Phillip Rumple]

hive is a mature chain, so you'd need quite a bit of hive (about 35k USD worth) to make $1 right now

but that's why the hive engine is so popular because the layer two tokens are worth more and more liquid

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
So would SME reach the same faith in the end?

[ Ekimike]
@marphil_llc can I ask clear picture function of HP AND SMEP

For example, powering up Hp benefits users

And powering SMEP thank so that all users will be aware as well

[ Phillip Rumple]
[In reply to Ekimike]
as the value of SME increases, the amount of SME decreases that is paid out to users while maintaining the actual VALUE of the SME. Meaning we retain the value but reward less.

When one power up Hive for HIVE Power, they get:

  • Resource Credits
  • Hive Power
  • Voting Power
  • Downvoting Power

When one powers up SME for SME Power:

  • They earn more per post
  • They earn more per like
  • They earn more per vote

[ Sally (I never DM First)]
[In reply to Phillip Rumple]
Awesome! I'm just figuring out the conversation. My imagination got high thinking of its value!

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
[In reply to Phillip Rumple]
Can you elaborate on "Earn more per post"?

[ Phillip Rumple]
[In reply to Allzee ]
the amount you earn per post is dependent on your activity, the voter's activity, the voter's weight, the voter's voting power, your voting power, and the overall value of SME at the time of payout

gravity + vote value + vote weight * exchange rate of SME for example

the less active you are on the platform, the less your votes are worth, and the less you earn

the more active you are on the platform, the more your votes ar`e worth, and the more you earn

having a high level of sme power doesn't always equal earning a lot

SoMee Oracle, for example, has a shit ton of sme power, but their vote isn't worth much (about 35 cents), because they are not active

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
I see. So it's under the assumption that when you power up SME, you would be more active on the platform. Otherwise, what's the point of powering up? lol

[ Phillip Rumple]
SoMee Official, however, has a large amount and is used for demonstration purposes, and thus is active on the platform, so they are worth quite a bit more

exactly, the power boosts are all great and fine, but if you are not active, what exactly are you boosting

that's why the pro packages have the durations they do

to give you time to be ACTIVE

the first seven days on the platform, your values are almost always very low

because your activity is very low, thus your gravity is very low on both hive and hive engine

thus your rewards are very low, and your vote isn't worth altogether that much (which is why voting at 100% is important when you are young)

however, as the first seven days pass, and you remain active all seven days, y our power increases quite a bit

and the value of your boost increases as well - giving you far more earning potential

but taking time away and being inactive = lowering your earnings on both hive and hive engine

because GRAVITY - ergo, your activity does play into the calculations

granted, your weight and voting power is the determining factor, but activity does have a multiplicative effect 😉

And please don't ask for the formula. Lol it's massively complicated, and unless you have a degree in statistical analysis or quantum mathematics, you won't understand gravity lol

just be happy with the notion that the more active you are, the more you are worth on the platform

[ Allzee @AweSoMee Facts]
That's good to know. I have been active daily since the beginning so hopefully, I have the highest multiplier possible🤣

[ Phillip Rumple]
it's a 7-day rolling value

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